Steering issues...

[Slim]

hey I just thought I would throw this out there and see if anyone has any input on it

I am havin big problems with my steering the trip before last when driving back home from JR my p/s pump decided to puke the fluid out the steering pump cap ,,,

so while working on it ,,, I bleed the system ,, put the rig on jack stands and pulled the coil wire and turned it over for 2 minutes slowly cycling left to right ,,, ,,, check the fluid ,,put the cap on ,,,started it ,,,worked flawlessly ..

I finished the work on the jeep and gettin it ready for the trail run and pulled it ,,out ,,and the steerin wouldnt turn left or right ,, when not moving ,, and barely even when moving ...

I parked it in the driveway ,,,check the fluid...belt ,,all is great ,,, but not turn ,, only about 1/2 -3/4 of a turn in total ,,

its the D60 with hi steer arm . all new tie rod on the draglink ,,, great angle ,,all looks good ,... so thinkin something is binding ,,I removed the stock steerin dampner ....no different,, ... then I undid the tie rod on the passenger side ,,, so the 2 wheels werent connected any more,, worked great ,.. jacked the driver side up to take the weight off it ,,checck all this tie rods ,,, none siezed ..all working freely ...

with the drivers side still up ,,I reconnected the tierod ,,,and both wheels turn effortlessly...but as soon as i lower it back down on the ground and have full vehicle wieght on it ,,, it wont turn again ,,,

so I guessed not pumping ,,so changed the pump out ,,, re bleed it ,,(minutes before headin to the trail )..and was still not turn ,..but figured HEY I will take it out anyways ...

on the highway ,,worked great ,,and pretty easy goin ,,,on the dirt loads and trails ,,,growled and puked fluid all day long..the fluid was smokin hot and almost like it wasnt circulating

so now I am gettin ready to put another Fsj box in it this weekend ... but any ideas what this could be or what can be done to fix it ? is it tryin to tell ME just install Hydro-Steer?

thank
Slim

[chet]

slim did you use new hoses? sounds like the return hose may have an obstruction or something? Odd problem for sure. Pull the ruturn hose off and see if any fluid comes out when you turn it over.

[Slim]

chet said:

slim did you use new hoses? sounds like the return hose may have an obstruction or something? Odd problem for sure. Pull the ruturn hose off and see if any fluid comes out when you turn it over.

yah I did ..I replace and even made the lines myself ,....... oh now I better check them for sure hey ..lol...

I will assume that with that line off its goin to gush and make a huge mess?

now will that tell ME the pump is work ,AND the box? or would that still leave open the chance its bypassing in the box?

thanks for the help Chet

[Chris/ Nasty Bear]

I would say you need a new pump, check for metal in the pump and steering box will not take much to mess the sytem up.

[Slim]

is they really any way to check out a box before installin a used one ? I have cycled it ,, checked for play and leaks ... just dont want to go thru the hassle of installin for nothing

[alstick]

Now this is coming from a guy with endless steering issues last year!

Make sure your return hose is large enough. I used a 1/4-inch hydraulic line to return fluid to the reservoir and a 5/8 feed line and it is not enough. Your return line should be as big if not larger than your feed line. This is really important as it controls flow and if there is an obstruction in the return line or it is too small it will back pressure the box and foam the fluid in the can. I actually blew the seals out of the box because the return line was too small. It will also give the condition you ran into as the pump supplies more pressure with required force. So with your tires in the air it needs very little boost to move the steering box - put the tire on the ground or up against something and the pump will supply more pressure then you back the box up and blow stuff up. I actually blew the pump up too because of this.

Also add a tranny cooler to the line. The bigger the tires the more constant force needed and it will over heat the fluid. I have a B&M tranny cooler on mine and it works great – couldn’t make the full hydro work without it.
Al V

[Slim]

thanks Al I knew u would have to work steerin issues out ,, I was thinkin of increasing all my lines in size ,,, but was concerned increase flow would decrease pressure due to lack of resistrance,.. the return line now is stock 3/8 return line ,, which I always use in stock applications ,, as u mentioned bigger is needed ...

I can easily make a bigger feed lins ..1.. thats what I do ..2.. they are hydraulic fittings to adapt .. but on the return line , I ran 3/8" cause that is the size of the tube out of the pump and the size of the line on the box...how do u get around that ?

trans cooler on the return line will also be done with the next fix ,.....

when u add ram assit and a cooler ,, do u still just use the pump cap dipstick and just fill at a normal level?

[chet]

the return line on any hydraulic system should be larger than the supply. Usually the fluid will get heated in the box etc. and expand and needs someplace to go.

Have you installed hydro assist Slim? If so and you are suing the stock pump res. it could be running low on fluid at full stroke.

[Slim]

no I havent installed the assist yet ,.. I wanted to adress the box /pump issue first befoer adressin that ...

the question again is ,,the pump only has a 3/8" pipe port out the back of every Saggi Pump I have seen ..how do u run a bigger line to it?

[Growly]

Ran into a similar problem after I had done the rebuild on the jimmy and installed hydro assist.I had stock lines from the pump to the box and 2 new lines from the box to the ram,had hard steering so figured I screwed up the box putting the fittings in it so got a new one,no change,took the lines off the box and tried that,no change,got a new pump and voilà power steering! Put the lines back on for the ram,and never looked back.(had also increased the flow and pressure of the pump and extended the reservoir)

[Slim]

did u just get a new rebuildt stock appilcation Chev pump ....or did u go for something with more output?

[chet]

I think on pirate4x4 or on the redneck ram steering website they tell how to boost the pressure of a chev pump. I did to the yota pump when I put a new one on and man waht a difference! No need for a ram after I did that. Could have been the new pump as well but the difference between the old worn lower pressure pump and the new modded one was amazing!

[chet]

here ya go!

westtexasoffroad.homestead.com/powersteering.html

[Slim]

I did that one an old pump I had and I blew the front shaft seal ,..

I think the plan is goin to be ,, install a new box out of a 90 waggy ...thats drilled and tapped for ram assist... but capped off for the time being ,,, then ,... instal the matchin stock 90 waggy steering pump ...install a cooler ,, increase the pressure line ,,and replace the stock return line ....

see how that works ,,

next level would be ,,take the old pump ...drill out the back housin and replace the lil 3/8 tube with a 5/8 one and make the return lime 5/8" and do that upgrade (thanks Chet)

then after that test,... go to ram if needed ,...

well thats the plan ,,,lol

see if it works

[Growly]

slim said:

did u just get a new rebuildt stock appilcation Chev pump ....or did u go for something with more output?

Yup just a jobber pump from Lordco,then did what they have on Redneck Ram for increase flow and pressure,worked great.

[Ken]

Slim, pull the retun hose off of the back of the pump, extend it or put a longer hose on it until it reachs the cap, have some one aim it into the resevoir and start the vehicle. Check how much flow you have and if the steering works now. If all works, you have a restriction between the hose and resevoir, if there is a lack of flow, you will need to check pressure line output. If the pressure side is ok, then you need a steering box. Give me a call if you have any questions.

[alstick]

Slim fix this problem yet?
Al

[Slim]

well I got the box in yesterday and the new pump set up ,... today at work I was doin lines .

I was goin to increase the sides like u suggested but I decided to try the new set up with all the parts of a 91 Waggy ...and see how that will work first with just addin a large cooler ,

the waggy box was drilled and tapped for the ram assist , for when I add the cyl..

I will keep u posted

[Slim]

well all hooked up ,,but the darn thing is still acting up.. last night I filled it ,,,turning it over without coil wire on ,,and then topped it up ,,one of the lines was dripping .. so it got air in it ,,so it foamed ,,so I let it settle again over night ...

tonight topped it up ,,ran it ,... and it was howling , .... I let it settle again ,,,,came in the house .,.. then went out and jacked it up ,,,took the load off it ,,and topped it again ,,till it stoped makin noise ,.. figure as it run ,,,it will work the air out then I will suction offthe extra fluid ,,, worked ok ,,,,without a load on the wheels ,,it was a touch noisey ,,but ok ,,, so sucked out the extra ,,, put the cap on ,,(still running) and was ok with it for toniight ,,

shut the engine off and it piss all the fluid again out the pin hole in the cap ,,, AGAIN ,,,

AUGH ,,will look at it again tomorrow after the fluid settles AGAIN ,,

any new tips or ideas people?

[Slim]

ok so all in ,,all bleed ,, while up on jack stands ,, works great ....side to side ,,,,

put it on the ground ,,, DOESNT work ,, same as before ....

so next step ..I think is to increase pump presure as Chet suggested.....

anyone have goood success with that " westtexasoffroad " upgrade ? looks pretty easy and cheap ,..

westtexasoffroad.homestead.com/powersteering.html

or have others just upgraded to something like an AGR pump

www.agrperformance.com/products_parts.php?cat=101&product=114&make=Jeep&model=109